Renzo Garcia
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techniques for matching pitch/key

Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:54 am

Yo, I've never started a thread in my life.. I'm not an outspoken person in general but fancied discussing some techniques.

I used to make beats/music a while a go like 7 years..So I'm a bit rusty Recently been getting back in to it and STBB has always proved a good way for me to finish shit as it has a weekly deadline. Just on a journey to lean and develop..

In particular I was curious to know if anyone had any solutions or techniques to a stumbling point I've been hitting sometimes..

I got a free trial for Logic X pro for 90 days - can't believe it's running out in 6 days or some shit :( I use an old Maschine as my primary sampler. I've managed to get Machine 2 software on an old Maschine 1 (This problem isn't just for Maschine users just thought I'd share what I use for context)

As I'm sure we all do - I like to fuck with pitch. Instead of using group I do it one the sound now as the group pitch saves and your root pitch or 0 moves when you pitch up and gets confusing. ANYWAYS - When I change the relative pitch of something lets say by like -7 does anyone have any techniques for then getting other samples or even VST/Synths to then match that new pitch? Or even if you are working with found sounds/foley/birds and shit - getting them in key with your other elements.

So I've tried to use Melodyne but it's kinda tech and my musical theory is BASIC..

Or Using the freq analyzer on your EQ plug, soloing a respective band and matching that - basically trying to use fundamental frequencies to match key/pitch

I get lucky most of the time by just using my ears.. But I wonder if anyone has a more methodical approach or some technique in lock?


Also one last thing.. For any Maschine users out there - Is there a way of globally affecting your sampler so that when you play your sample on a higher or lower note it doesn't affect the speed in which it is played back in? I've researched some ways but have only found some long ass way you have to do on each sound. Is there any way you can do it globally like the way Iris 2 does?

I use my Maschine to output in midi as I find working within maschine really claustrophobic - I output midi notes in logic so I can fine tune - then either record the maschine groups output or just bounce in place and repeat the process. Just wondering how y'all are sampling/resampling and arranging..

Cools. Looking forward to a constructive discussion and sharing of ideas/techniques. I hope my incoherent rambling makes some kinda sense to peeps..

Safe you lot. Speak soon :vulcan:
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RiffWraith
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Re: techniques for matching pitch/key

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:33 pm

You definitely hit on one of the weak points of Maschine. Basically you're right, you essentially have to set each individual sample on each pad, and lock the sample in individually. Which sort of defeats the purpose of the sampler. There is no reasonably easy way to do this.

I also use Logic, and I have a workaround for this. Maschine is really good for actually slicing samples, because you can do the pad/slice/loop thing really quickly. So I'll bring whatever sample I want into Maschine, and then slice the individual piece I want. Then you you just use the export .wav pull down in the slice screen, and drag the slice directly into the Logic track.

Once you're in Logic, make that track a sampler instrument (the new sampler/quick sampler in Logic is pretty fantastic - it's 500x improvement over EX24). With the slice in the sampler you can then lock the speed, and change the pitch right there. You can also key the sample to a root note, adjust the pitch for individual notes for the sample with the speed original tempo or locked to the tempo of the song. I've found this to work really well, and it's super easy to once you've done it.

For matching pitch on Logic, you can gang all your tracks midi sampler tracks to one of the busses, and put the MIDI pitch correction/key change plugin on the track. Then if you want to shift all those tracks up or down, just adjust the plugin on the bus track. You could actually probably route this a dozen different ways, but the key thing is if you have the MIDI correct the pitch on all the tracks, you only need to change it once each time.

Hope this helps, I know it's a little rambly.
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per.du
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Re: techniques for matching pitch/key

Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:54 am

Renzo Garcia wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:54 am
Is there a way of globally affecting your sampler so that when you play your sample on a higher or lower note it doesn't affect the speed in which it is played back in?
Not a machine or logic user, but i think what you are looking for is time-stretching?
afaik that exists in maschine, however I have no idea where or how :P
In ableton there is a tuner thing that I mainly use to finetune the pitch of some samples (like this week's, they were super off) the rest I do by ear mostly.
there should be free tuning vsts/aus out there that can do the same (or even more)

Hope that helps somehow!
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Renzo Garcia
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Contact: SC

Re: techniques for matching pitch/key

Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:27 am

RiffWraith wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:33 pm
You definitely hit on one of the weak points of Maschine. Basically you're right, you essentially have to set each individual sample on each pad, and lock the sample in individually. Which sort of defeats the purpose of the sampler. There is no reasonably easy way to do this.

I also use Logic, and I have a workaround for this. Maschine is really good for actually slicing samples, because you can do the pad/slice/loop thing really quickly. So I'll bring whatever sample I want into Maschine, and then slice the individual piece I want. Then you you just use the export .wav pull down in the slice screen, and drag the slice directly into the Logic track.

Once you're in Logic, make that track a sampler instrument (the new sampler/quick sampler in Logic is pretty fantastic - it's 500x improvement over EX24). With the slice in the sampler you can then lock the speed, and change the pitch right there. You can also key the sample to a root note, adjust the pitch for individual notes for the sample with the speed original tempo or locked to the tempo of the song. I've found this to work really well, and it's super easy to once you've done it.

For matching pitch on Logic, you can gang all your tracks midi sampler tracks to one of the busses, and put the MIDI pitch correction/key change plugin on the track. Then if you want to shift all those tracks up or down, just adjust the plugin on the bus track. You could actually probably route this a dozen different ways, but the key thing is if you have the MIDI correct the pitch on all the tracks, you only need to change it once each time.

Hope this helps, I know it's a little rambly.

Yo Riff,

Thanks for joining the discussion! Been a little busy so I've not had the chance to reply.. gonna start chopping up these weeks source material later.

Ye I'm not sure if Maschine is the one for me but a friend gave me an old Machine so I've been learning it. For now to solve my issue regarding respective notes affecting the play back speed I use Iris 2 - and change the Pitch Mode to Radius RT. I just find it pretty crazy Maschine doesn't have a quick an easy way of doing this.

Personally I like to slice up whatever I'm working with myself so I can get my start and end points tight to the respective beats. Some times I will flex time on samples that need adjusting before sampling so that everything works with each other rhythmically.

Ye EXS24 was my go to sampler way back when I'm assuming this quick sampler and methods you've outlined refer to the recent upgrade to 10.5? I've not made the leap of faith yet. I was using Logic 8 for ages before. Like I mentioned before I've kinda had a 7 year gap of no beats. It's a madness.. I'm using a late 2009 iMac.. Soo I try to keep CPU consumption low as poss..I can't believe I've only got 2 days left of my free 90 day logic X pro trial left :cry:

Yup I am always grouping tracks whether it's percussions, drums, vocals, keys or even tracks I feel are of a similar texture etc - I recently discovered the track stacks feature which is awesome. So ye grouping tracks and affecting them all globally is something I often put in to practice and I mos def have applied your method in the past. Thanks for the tip though. My question was more directed towards finding the key of something very obscure - Like if you've pitched something down, then up and then processed it some OR even found sound/foley/SFX and matching those with let's say some VST keys OR another sample which has had the pitch fucked with. So you get me ye? Like there are 2 or even 4 question marks for relative pitch as both/all sounds have now been transposed. So even if we put them all in a group that doesn't mean the pitch correction applied will have the desired affects because they are all out of tune with each other to start of with. I hope this makes sense? haha.. super long winded on my part! :lol:

Basically this is deffo one of my stumbling blocks.. Sometimes when I change the pitch of something like some instruments/groups I've made out of samples I then find it super hard to match anything with it.. even if it isn't that obscure. I guess it is about knowing watch key/pitch it was before transposing and knowing how that affects it to inform what the 'new key/pitch' is.. Ye kinda thinking out loud in this paragraph..


In my opinion.. I guess metering/analysers mixed with know how and technique is the way to master this. Like I said before I've tried Melodyne and it does work but you need a good grasp of musical theory. I know fo sho that referencing the fundamental frequency in your EQ analyser can help you identify the key/pitch/note of something but I guess this technique is something that comes with experience/practice and technical knowledge. My friends mentioned mixed in key - so I'm guessing this is the same concept but translated for easy access. You obviously still gotta use your ear and go with your instincts but helps give more guidance and direction rather than feeling like you are just swinging in the dark.
I've never started a discussion before so just happy to be engaging with likeminded folk sharing ideas, techniques and opinions.

Thanks for taking the time to participate :vulcan:
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Renzo Garcia
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Contact: SC

Re: techniques for matching pitch/key

Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:36 am

per.du wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:54 am
Renzo Garcia wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:54 am
Is there a way of globally affecting your sampler so that when you play your sample on a higher or lower note it doesn't affect the speed in which it is played back in?
Not a machine or logic user, but i think what you are looking for is time-stretching?
afaik that exists in maschine, however I have no idea where or how :P
In ableton there is a tuner thing that I mainly use to finetune the pitch of some samples (like this week's, they were super off) the rest I do by ear mostly.
there should be free tuning vsts/aus out there that can do the same (or even more)

Hope that helps somehow!
Hey Per.Du,

Fair enough. I am v familiar with time-stretching. Ye time stretching after you've played it in is a work around.. But I feel having the play back speed unaffected when you perform/record is important to me so that you know how the groove and rhythm fits. And ye it mos def exists in maschine software.

Yup fine tune is for sure one of the methods - I guess I've covered this on my reply to RiffWraith but I guess it's about using some techniques that can help make this a smoother process. As always after developing and progressing and all that jazz.. :sax:

Basically just wanted an excuse to geek out with some heads - share some ideas and techniques and that. :idea: :D

Thanks for your input bro. It's much appreciated :vulcan:
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